Clon Superfo 128K - Manos a la obra

Sinclair QL, ZX81, +2, +3, 128K ...
Avatar de Usuario
antoniovillena
Amiga 1200
Amiga 1200
Mensajes: 2013
Registrado: 16 Abr 2012, 21:22
Gracias recibidas: 8 veces

Re: Clon Superfo 128K - Manos a la obra

Mensajepor antoniovillena » 03 May 2013, 18:02

superfo escribió:That PS2 project use 52 macrocells, only 20 macrocells left so so it is not enough to put ZXMMC.


Thank you, Don. I've tried to compile the equations but with errors. Do you have the ZXMMC source code? I have observed the PS/2 source code and the main part of the macrocells are spent into keyboard matrix storage. They are 40bits, so 40 macrocells are only for storage, and the rest macrocells are used in the communication protocol between the microcontroller.

My idea is to store 8 of the 40 bits in the microcontroller (there are many free pins), so the CPLD only treat to store 32 bits (8 rows x 4 columns). The fifth column is calculated from these 8 bits. So we have 28 macrocells free (44 used).

According to this page:

http://www.zxbada.bbk.org/zxmmc/cpld.html

The ZXMMC fits into a XC9536XL, that is 36 macrocells in the worst case.

superfo
Dragon 32
Dragon 32
Mensajes: 18
Registrado: 21 Abr 2013, 09:01
Sistema Favorito: Spectrum 16Kb/48Kb
primer_sistema: Spectrum +2
consola_favorita: Sony PlayStation 1
Primera consola: Nintendo GameBoy

Re: Clon Superfo 128K - Manos a la obra

Mensajepor superfo » 03 May 2013, 18:39

Yes, I have source of zxmmc, it need 36 macrocells.
For PS2, if you use source from Mecleod, it needs 80 macrocells and no need microcontroller.
So both ZXMMC and PS2 can fit into XC95144XL.

Check Speccy2007 project, it use ATMEGA16 for both SD card and PS2.

Avatar de Usuario
antoniovillena
Amiga 1200
Amiga 1200
Mensajes: 2013
Registrado: 16 Abr 2012, 21:22
Gracias recibidas: 8 veces

Re: Clon Superfo 128K - Manos a la obra

Mensajepor antoniovillena » 03 May 2013, 19:23

Probably the best idea is to use the XC95144, but I think it has not PLCC package for not SMD soldering.

About Speccy2007, it's awesome. I thought that there were speed constraints that don't allow do it with a 16MHz microcontroller (need at least 40MHz).

-- Actualizado 03 May 2013, 18:58 --

Found XC95144XL in TQ100 package at $1 each piece free shipping here:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/XC95144X ... 36228.html

superfo
Dragon 32
Dragon 32
Mensajes: 18
Registrado: 21 Abr 2013, 09:01
Sistema Favorito: Spectrum 16Kb/48Kb
primer_sistema: Spectrum +2
consola_favorita: Sony PlayStation 1
Primera consola: Nintendo GameBoy

Re: Clon Superfo 128K - Manos a la obra

Mensajepor superfo » 03 May 2013, 20:17

Yes, there is no plcc package for XC95144XL but 100pin plcc is very big :)
$1 is cheap, I buy it in US for $7.

The atmega16 in Speccy2007 use 14MHz, it doesn't need 40Mhz because it use A0 from Z80 to decode.

What you mean about ram 62256 in another post?

Avatar de Usuario
antoniovillena
Amiga 1200
Amiga 1200
Mensajes: 2013
Registrado: 16 Abr 2012, 21:22
Gracias recibidas: 8 veces

Re: Clon Superfo 128K - Manos a la obra

Mensajepor antoniovillena » 03 May 2013, 21:31

superfo escribió:What you mean about ram 62256 in another post?


This is because I have tried some circuits without luck. I have changed the "WR" OR gate by a tristate gate (74HC125) and the memory doesn't fail, but there are problems with contention. In original superfo 48 clone there was that gate (the "WR" OR one) and there wasn't any problem (memory or contention) so I suppose that this is because 62256 chips are slower and less sensible to glitches. So I have in mind to change 61512 chips by 62256 ones to compare.

In the last revision I have replaced the 74hc257 by a 74hc125. I have not tried yet.

http://retrolandia.net/foro/showthread. ... 390#pid390

-- Actualizado 03 May 2013, 20:34 --

What do you think that is the best option (cheap, less PCB area and easy to solder) to implement the PS2 and ZXMMC interfaces?

superfo
Dragon 32
Dragon 32
Mensajes: 18
Registrado: 21 Abr 2013, 09:01
Sistema Favorito: Spectrum 16Kb/48Kb
primer_sistema: Spectrum +2
consola_favorita: Sony PlayStation 1
Primera consola: Nintendo GameBoy

Re: Clon Superfo 128K - Manos a la obra

Mensajepor superfo » 03 May 2013, 21:52

If XC95144XL is $1 (or even $7), this option is cheap and use less pcb. solder is not too difficult.

Avatar de Usuario
mcleod_ideafix
Amiga 2500
Amiga 2500
Mensajes: 5316
Registrado: 06 Oct 2009, 04:12
Sistema Favorito: Spectrum 16Kb/48Kb
primer_sistema: Spectrum 16Kb/48Kb
consola_favorita: Vectrex
Primera consola: TV Games/Pong Clone
Ubicación: Jerez de la Frontera
Gracias dadas: 12 veces
Gracias recibidas: 54 veces
Contactar:

Re: Clon Superfo 128K - Manos a la obra

Mensajepor mcleod_ideafix » 03 May 2013, 23:21

One thing to consider (well, more than one):
- CPLD implementations of PS/2 -> ZX Matrix keyboard don't take into account multi-protocol keyboards because they don't implement sending commands from the host to the keyboard. That is: keyboards that accept both USB and PS/2 connections won't surely work. It happens that those keyboards boot into USB mode, and if they receive a RESET command using PS/2 protocol, then they revert to PS/2, else they stay in USB mode. So they couldn't be used for this project. Adding bidirectional protocol to a CPLD implementation would surely employ more macrocells.
- If you are going to add a XC95144XL, better use it to implement all the video generation circuit (i.e. the ULA). You will save a lot of PCB real estate (yes, I know that this would distorst the true meaning of this project, so you won't probably be doing this)
- On the other way, my microcontroller implementation does use the full PS/2 protocol, so no problem with these keyboards. Silabs is expensive nowdays, but Antonio Villena came across with some ARM Cortex chips that would do the job. The bad thing about them is that there's no PS/2 -> Spectrum code written for it.
- So, if the PS/2 keyboard is going to be an option and not something one must include, I'd recommend to go for the design that has already been proven, although it's not the cheaper one: Silabs.
Recuerda: cada vez que se implementa un sistema clásico en FPGA, Dios mata a un purista

Avatar de Usuario
antoniovillena
Amiga 1200
Amiga 1200
Mensajes: 2013
Registrado: 16 Abr 2012, 21:22
Gracias recibidas: 8 veces

Re: Clon Superfo 128K - Manos a la obra

Mensajepor antoniovillena » 03 May 2013, 23:57

mcleod_ideafix escribió:One thing to consider (well, more than one):
- CPLD implementations of PS/2 -> ZX Matrix keyboard don't take into account multi-protocol keyboards because they don't implement sending commands from the host to the keyboard. That is: keyboards that accept both USB and PS/2 connections won't surely work. It happens that those keyboards boot into USB mode, and if they receive a RESET command using PS/2 protocol, then they revert to PS/2, else they stay in USB mode. So they couldn't be used for this project. Adding bidirectional protocol to a CPLD implementation would surely employ more macrocells.


We have 36+80= 116 macrocells used, so we have 28 free macrocells to do it compatible with all keyboards.

mcleod_ideafix escribió:- If you are going to add a XC95144XL, better use it to implement all the video generation circuit (i.e. the ULA). You will save a lot of PCB real estate (yes, I know that this would distorst the true meaning of this project, so you won't probably be doing this)


Yes, as you said this would distort the meaning of this project. The XC95144XL is an optional feature for both SD flash and PS/2 keyboard, if you don't use you will have CF flash and Spectrum keyboard. And there is another clone (also made by superfo) that uses XC95144XL to generate the ULA, so we are reinventing the wheel.

http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/s ... 115&page=2

mcleod_ideafix escribió:- On the other way, my microcontroller implementation does use the full PS/2 protocol, so no problem with these keyboards. Silabs is expensive nowdays, but Antonio Villena came across with some ARM Cortex chips that would do the job. The bad thing about them is that there's no PS/2 -> Spectrum code written for it.


Silabs and ARM Cortex are about the same price. The reason because I talk about ARM Cortex is because jepalza has a developping board with ARM Cortex and some code to start (an emulator with PS/2 keyboard). But from the point of view of developping time, it's more easier to implement ZXMMC on the Silabs, that both ZXMMC+PS/2 on the ARM Cortex. The advantages of XC95144 is that it's cheaper and won't require additional discrete decoding of ports $1f and $3f.

But yet we haven't decided what chip (or chips) we will use to implement ZXMMC+PS/2.

mcleod_ideafix escribió:- So, if the PS/2 keyboard is going to be an option and not something one must include, I'd recommend to go for the design that has already been proven, although it's not the cheaper one: Silabs.


Of course. Also the schematics are tested (superfo has PS/2 keyboard in this clone). So if we finally don't add ZXMMC interface, we won't change the Silabs chip. Remember the phrase: If it works, don't touch anything.

Avatar de Usuario
TallerSeverino
Amstrad PC 1640
Amstrad PC 1640
Mensajes: 519
Registrado: 12 Abr 2013, 09:55
Sistema Favorito: Spectrum 16Kb/48Kb
primer_sistema: Spectrum 16Kb/48Kb
consola_favorita: Nintendo NES/Clónica
Primera consola: Nintendo NES/Clónica
Ubicación: Cádiz
Gracias dadas: 17 veces
Gracias recibidas: 17 veces

Re: Clon Superfo 128K - Manos a la obra

Mensajepor TallerSeverino » 04 May 2013, 00:33

I don't know the pins pitch of this chip, but soltering with an Iron is not doable judging from the pictures on the web, If solder paste and hot air is used, or a different way whatsoever, that's another story, It's really small. Which could be the chep-o way for those of us with simple soldering irons?
Kind regards.
Edit:
antoniovillena escribió:
mcleod_ideafix escribió:- So, if the PS/2 keyboard is going to be an option and not something one must include, I'd recommend to go for the design that has already been proven, although it's not the cheaper one: Silabs.


Of course. Also the schematics are tested (superfo has PS/2 keyboard in this clone). So if we finally don't add ZXMMC interface, we won't change the Silabs chip. Remember the phrase: If it works, don't touch anything.


Thumbs up, let's keep the c8051F, it's easier and tested.. at least on one prototype.
Edit 2:
I have already ordered the jtag/usb plug !

Avatar de Usuario
antoniovillena
Amiga 1200
Amiga 1200
Mensajes: 2013
Registrado: 16 Abr 2012, 21:22
Gracias recibidas: 8 veces

Re: Clon Superfo 128K - Manos a la obra

Mensajepor antoniovillena » 04 May 2013, 01:05

TallerSeverino, el XC95144XL tiene el mismo pitch que el Silabs, de 0.5mm. El encapsulado es TQFP-100, frente al TQFP-48:

http://www.xilinx.com/support/documenta ... /tq100.pdf
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datashe ... 805_DS.pdf

La diferencia está en el tamaño, 16x16mm en lugar de los 9x9mm del Silabs. La única razón para cambiar de chip es si queremos incorporar una tarjeta SD como alternativa (no como sustitución) al interfaz CF que es muy tiquismiquis y no funciona con todas las tarjetas. Pero hasta que no tengamos nada funcional (que funcione tanto el PS2 como el ZXMMC) no se va a cambiar el actual Silabs.

-- Actualizado 04 May 2013, 12:47 --

Esta mañana he enviado los segundos pedidos de TallerSeverino y de radastan. Si no los recibís la semana que viene dadme un toque.


Volver a “Sinclair/Spectrum”

¿Quién está conectado?

Usuarios navegando por este Foro: No hay usuarios registrados visitando el Foro y 8 invitados